As promised, here's the second half of the straw poll I conducted among various Big East football and basketball school bloggers about the upcoming Big East expansion. Part 1 of the poll, where everyone listed the teams they want to invite and the teams they think will be invited, can be found here.
This isn't a really easy post to read because of the format, so everything is after the jump. The three questions are:
- Is expansion going to make a long-term difference in the future of the league?
- Will the Big East still be intact as a football league in 2015?
- Do you support removing members to keep the league manageable? If so, who?
3. Is expansion going to make a long-term difference in the future of the league?
- "Not if they just add Villanova, or try to add a 10th football-only member. The Big East will be just as vulnerable to a raid as it always was. The only way to secure the conference's future is to make a clean break from the eight non-football schools, and focus on football to a level proportional to what television revenues ought to dictate." (On the Banks)
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"Maybe? I can't say with much, if any, certainty that this move will be the one that staved off the wolves of public criticism." (Matt Opper, Down the Drive)
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"Long term, I don't think so, but it may hold off the "take away the BCS bid" dogs for a while." (WVUIE97, The Smoking Musket)
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- "Nope. This league is fucked.
"Here's why: The Big East was formed to first and foremost serve basketball interests. Ask Jake Crouthamel and Dave Gavitt. The Big East exists because it wanted to be the biggest, baddest basketball league in the country. That's why Penn State got the shaft. It is built for basketball; everything else is a renovation. Hell, there wasn't even a football division until 1991.
"As this is a basketball-first league and the basketball-onlies have all this stupid voting power, it won't last. There will still be the interest division between the members and this expansion does nothing against the Big Ten or Atlantic Coast Conference poaching whatever the hell they want. Seriously ask yourself: If the Big Ten or Atlantic Coast Conference knocks on your preferred school's door and extends and invitation, do you seriously say, 'No. We're cool here in the Big East where we have no fucking clue what will happen in five years.'
"If you do, you're an imbecile. This league will just be constructed different after the 'process.' The fatal flaws will remain." (Hoya Suxa)
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- "Yes. I think if they can add TCU and I dunno, Houston, it would be a couple of decent programs historically to join the fold. I think 10 teams would be able to survive the blow if someone like Rutgers or Pitt left." (Scott, Bearcats Blog)
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- "I think it means that we do eventually creating 4-5 super leagues (and getting rid of CUSA, MAC, MWC, etc.) that the BIG EAST will be around to stay. No expansion, it probably falls apart and the basketball only schools are fucked." (Chris Lane, The Nova Blog)
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- "Only if they go to 12." (Sean Keeley, Troy Nunes Is an Absolute Magician)
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- "I think so. If Rutgers or Syracuse bolts to the Big 10+2, there are enough teams left to hold the football conference together." (Ken DeCelles, Voodoo Five)
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- "Yes - there will be a split between basketball-only and football schools in next three years." (Casual Hoya)
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- "Absolutely. If the league expands to 12 football teams (and one of them is Villanova) the league could survive as a 19-team league. The 18 game basketball schedule could work and eliminate the unbalanced mirror games we have now." (Tim Blair, Cracked Sidewalks)
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- "Yes and no. No in the sense that if the superconferences movement comes, the conference is going to be destroyed. Yes in the sense that I think the superconference movement died with Texas staying in the Big 12 so these teams will be a part of out dysfunctional family for the immediate future." (Pitt Script Blog)
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- "Sort of. I don't know if/when there will be any further conference shake-ups. If the prophesy of 16-team mega conferences come to pass then it helps keep some stability for the remaining programs if/when schools like Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt and/or UConn become part of the shuffle. The conference can remain intact and perhaps partner up with what ever becomes of the Big 12.
"Will expansion prevent the poaching of other teams if the Big 10 or ACC come calling? No. The money is obviously too enticing. As is the stability." (Chas Rich, Pitt Blather)
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- "Not expansion alone. If we're talking actual health of the league, the Big East will be the ugly stepchild until these teams start getting better. I'm sorry, y'all, but this is some sorry football. It really is. Syracuse has a chance to win the league. Syracuse. Come on, now. Expansion will bring in a TCU team that will stomp the league. What will that mean? Will that draw Jersey players to Rutgers, or New England players to UConn? The games have to get better before people will watch, and when people watch, there are money making opportunities." (Pico Dulce, The East Coast Bias)
4. Will the Big East still be intact as a football league in 2015?
- "Odds are it will exist in some form, but the current situation is so precarious that at best they'll always be in a position of vulnerability." (On the Banks)
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- "Yes. I think the Big 10 is done at 12 and if they stop pretty much every one stops." (Matt Opper, Down the Drive)
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- "I think it will exist in name only, with many of the pillars moving toward superconferences." (WVUIE97, The Smoking Musket)
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- "No. Fucking. Way. There's no way that this thing makes it to the end of the BCS contract in 2014. Schools will bolt for other conferences and the basketball-onlies are going to split.
"Plus, Marinatto is a first-class moron. He's in over his head now. This is only going to get worse before it gets better. If you tell me that Paul Tagliabue is going to step in and run this conference, I'll at least listen to post-2014 togetherness arguments." (Hoya Suxa)
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- "Yes. It could be the last year of the Big East, but I think it will still be going on." (Scott, Bearcats Blog)
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- "ONLY if they expand now. And I think they will, so yes." (Chris Lane, The Nova Blog)
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- "Yes, but barely." (Sean Keeley, Troy Nunes Is an Absolute Magician
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- "Unless there is some sort of merger between the ACC and Big East, then yes I think there will be." (Ken DeCelles, Voodoo Five)
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"No, current Big East football teams will be in a separate league operating under a different conference name." (Casual Hoya)
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"Yes I do." (Tim Blair, Cracked Sidewalks)
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"I think so. Even though the Big East has the worst revenue of all the BCS conferences, it's not like any of us have any better options. Save another round of raids by the ACC or Big 10, I think we're all kind of stuck together. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the Big East became the Catholic school conference while a new eastern conference broke away and expanded." (Pitt Script Blog)
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"Yes. The one thing we have seen in the last few years is that nothing every moves as quickly as expected in college football maneuvering." (Chas Rich, Pitt Blather)
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"In some form, yes. Unless the Big 10 yanks a few schools, and the ACC yanks a pair, and the rest go to the MAC. I just can't see that happening. I can't see the Big Ten wanting to share their Network pie much more unless a team is really going to bring in eyeballs. The only appeal of Big East team markets might be New York City and possibly Tampa, right? So I don't see any of these teams going anywhere..." (Pico Dulce, The East Coast Bias)
5. Do you support removing members to keep the league manageable? If so, who?
- "The Big East should split. One alternative proposal is to just kick out Seton Hall/Providence/Marquette/DePaul (while keeping St. John's/Villanova/Georgetown/Notre Dame), but the basketball schools and conference leadership will never go for that. It's a half-measure too. It's time to cut the cord." (On the Banks)
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- "In theory yes, but I have no concrete methodology for determining which teams go." (Matt Opper, Down the Drive)
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- "I support it, but don't think it will ever happen again. Look what happened with Temple and now they probably want them back. None of the other leagues have done it (to my knowledge) and the BE seems to be playing follow the leader right now. If the others start doing it, the BE may." (WVUIE97, The Smoking Musket)
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- "I've said this before and I'll say it again: Any meaningful change to conference membership must have membership revocation on the table. If it isn't, problems aren't being resolved, they're just being postponed or perpetuated.
"So, who goes? DePaul -- See you the fuck later. The Chicago market, which you don't even control, is worthless to this league. Marquette/Providence -- I don't care which, but one of these loserfaces has got to go. I love watching you hoop, Marquette, but you're just in the way. Plus, I'm not even convinced that Wisconsin is a real place. As for Providence, they'll never get the boot because they're somehow a power broker in all of this thanks to Gavitt and Marinatto, but I'd piss on their pink slip if they got one. I'd give Notre Dame a kick in the pants, too, but you need to treat them nice if they decide to go to another league on the condition that Syracuse/Pittsburgh/Connecticut/Whoever must come along as well.
"Let's keep around Georgetown and St. John's because I'm a selfish prick.
"The league's at 16 with the revocations and will still eventually collapse, but hey, at least something worthwhile happened." (Hoya Suxa)
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- "Yes. I think unless it's Memphis, the Big East takes whoever joins for football only, with a waiting plan on letting them join the Big East full time. We don't need TCU maxing out it's budget making trips to New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut. Plus, we already have a bottom feeder and it's name is DePaul. If people happen to leave the Big East, whoever becomes a full member. If Memphis ends up joining for some reason, you let their hoops team in and roll with 17." (Scott, Bearcats Blog)
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- "I don't love it, but it's a business. Seton Hall gots to go if we bring on 3 more teams." (Chris Lane, The Nova Blog)
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- "Yes, DePaul and maybe Marquette." (Sean Keeley, Troy Nunes Is an Absolute Magician)
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- "If it means removing DePaul in order to bring in TCU, then it's been fun guys, we'll see you around sometimes." (Ken DeCelles, Voodoo Five)
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- "Yes and no. If the Big East adds TCU and East Carolina, I hope they are made football-only and the conference drops no one. If the Big East adds Memphis and Temple, drop DePaul and Marquette. Since Georgetown is basketball-only, I am only interested in seeing Big East basketball remain competitive. At the end of the day, money will win and football brings in money, although I don't think the current Big East football schools can ever compete with the monsters in other conferences." (Casual Hoya)
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- "No, not until all avenues are explored to keep the league in tact. When the league expanded in 2005 many said the Big East would quickly implode. Clearly the basketball side of the league is thriving with the help of that expansion. Now it's football's turn to shore things up, and I think they will." (Tim Blair, Cracked Sidewalks)
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- "Ab-so-lutely. Not like it will happen, but I'm not sure of the value of some programs. For instance, when is the last time Seton Hall was on national TV? Would ESPN's payout to the conference decrease at all if Seton Hall got the boot? Same with DePaul. Saying DePaul provides the Chicago market is like saying that Villanova provides Philladelphia (er, wait...). I know there's a lot of animosity about Notre Dame, but Notre Dame is a much better non-football member than most of the other options. At least Notre Dame actually provides markets and interest." (Pitt Script Blog)
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- "Yes. It's probably an unrealistic pipe dream, but yes. It's part of why I don't object to 'Nova going 1-A in football. For it to even have a chance at happening there needs to be enough of a shift of power to football members to push it.
"I don't think I'm too far away from the obvious in wanting to jettison DePaul, Providence and Seton Hall as a minimum." (Chas Rich, Pitt Blather)
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- "As a fan of a basketball school, I am not a fan of removing members. Not even DePaul. Though Providence really doesn't carry their weight." (Pico Dulce, The East Coast Bias)